Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | trt808's commentslogin

So what's the most likely outcome for all the grounded planes at this point? As someone who has some fear of flying I'll definitely make sure none of my trips include a 737 max in the future, no matter how many patches or upgrades boeing releases


https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/faile...

> According to a detailed FAA briefing to legislators, Boeing will change the MCAS software to give the system input from both angle-of-attack sensors.

> It will also limit how much MCAS can move the horizontal tail in response to an erroneous signal. And when activated, the system will kick in only for one cycle, rather than multiple times.

> Boeing also plans to update pilot training requirements and flight crew manuals to include MCAS.

> These proposed changes mirror the critique made by the safety engineers in this story. They had spoken to The Seattle Times before the Ethiopian crash.

> The FAA said it will mandate Boeing’s software fix in an airworthiness directive no later than April.

After the fixes are implemented I wouldn't worry too much about it. Lots of planes have had terrible design flaws that were fixed. The pre-MAX 737 included.


Lots of planes have had terrible design flaws that were fixed.

Sure, but none of those planes (in the last 30 years or so) had two full hull losses within month of each other with brand new planes.


IMO, the most likely outcome is: initially, they'll stay grounded until the flight recorders from the latest crash are analyzed, and it's confirmed that it's probably the same or a related cause (if the cause was unrelated, they might be allowed to resume flying earlier). Then a fix to the software will be developed, taking into account the preliminary results of the investigation; Boeing has a head start here, since they started developing the fix after the previous crash. After it's validated that the fixed software would have prevented both accidents, the authorities will change the rule from "all planes of this type are grounded" to "all planes of this type are grounded, unless they have software version at least X.YY on that subsystem, or are flying with no passengers to a maintenance facility to install that software version". And then the companies which own these planes will install the fixed software, and normal flying will resume.


They'll be patched to take input from both angle-of-attack sensors (it has two, but the MCAS only used input from one of them) and limit how much the MCAS can override pilot input.

I'd be more concerned by the regulatory capture that permitted this to happen than the specific model of aircraft.


It is very unlikely they will be scraped. There isn't just a handful out there, but more than 300. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_737_MAX_order...

My uninformed assumption is that once a suitable issue is isolated some sort of remediation (training/software/airframe/cockpit) all under the onset of various international gov bodies. No idea if the is a 1 year or 5 year process.


I would expect them to be flying prior to the end of the year. The airplane has two AoA inputs and, between that and limiting the authority of the MCAS and adding an MCAS indicator on the panel, I suspect this is a short, mostly flight control software patch. ("Short" in aviation still might be 3 months.)


They might be able to get away with requiring additional training in the meantime, as well.

There are big PR risks in that approach, though.


Actually, assuming this article is correct, the 737 MAX will possibly be safer than other planes because Boeing's leash with the FAA is about to get a lot shorter.

Ignoring all other issues pointed out in TFA, two really stand out: The use of a single AoA sensor for a "Hazardous" component seems flat out wrong to me. The ability of MCAS to cause maximum deflection of the trim, rather than some limit (2.5 vs 0.6 is a quibble compared to 2.5 vs unlimited) also seems bad.


I always keep my coffee beans in the freezer after opening the bag :/


You shouldn't freeze your beans. You can get a container which allows the beans to degas at a constant rate, which keeps them fresher for longer on your counter. Good beans don't deserve the freezer.


I'd love this thread to become a debate on the merits of freezing beans :).


Sure, coffee roaster here. It's false that allowing beans to degas c02 preserves them indefinitely as the parent comment seems to imply. There is however about a 10-hour window after roasting where degassing of c02 is so vigorous it impedes oxidation. Freezing vacuum sealed coffee, both green and roasted beans, will preserve it almost perfectly for years because freezing decreases oxidation rates by more than 90% and slows the movement of volatiles.[0] Enough people have documented and tested this and it's very common for Cup of Excellence winning and other notable coffees to be stored for extended periods of time this way. There are even cafes with reserves of such coffee, you can walk in and they'll pull winners from years ago for you to try. Scott Rao documents the research and resulting evidence of why it's beneficial to freeze coffee in his book The Coffee Roaster's Companion.[1] It's just not economical at scale, or necessary. Green coffee is "fresh" for about 9 months on average, most roasters go through specific lots of coffee well before that window closes. The sad reality is that most roasted coffee is well past its peak by the time it reaches the consumer.

You can conduct an at-home experiment yourself by finding a local roaster, asking when their roast days are and if you can get some coffee from that batch before it's allowed to rest. Seal and freeze a portion while keeping the rest in a normal valve-release bag and compare after a week or two.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Coffee-Technology-Michael-Sivetz/dp/0... [1] https://www.amazon.com/Coffee-Roasters-Companion-Scott-2014-...


Interesting. There's a debate about whether freezing beans is the right thing to do: https://drinks.seriouseats.com/2010/09/should-you-freeze-you...

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts!


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: