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Virtu, one of the very largest HFT firms, had revenues of ~$750MM, with net income around $120mm, in 2014. Goldman Sachs made $34bn.


http://ir.virtu.com/results.cfm

Actual results for 2015. Your numbers are a fair bit off of those. What you can see from the results is that their revenue/profit numbers are small in real terms, but their margins are big compared to other businesses, even technology ones.

Personally, I'm not offended by that and think that the entire conversation about HFT is funny given how little money is actually involved, but if you view profitability in any context as evil or rent seeking, then you have ammunition for that argument with Virtu.

[edit]

Another good one to look at is Knight (Getco) http://investors.kcg.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=105070&p=irol-SECTe....

Had a much better year last year vs the previous 2 and it still was a fundamentally little amount of money.

[edit again]

That Knight statement is very interesting because it shows that the vast amount of their profit came from execution services and that their market making business was very low margin. Now that could be because their market making business is taking the full shot of the infrastructure accounting that enables the execution services business, but its interesting none the less.


From the source you gave:

> Full Year 2015:

> Net Income of $197.5 million

> Adjusted Net Trading Income of $500.7 million

His numbers seem pretty accurate.


He edited it down an order of magnitude (and rightly so, it was clearly a typo).

That said, whenever any trading entity talks about their trading income, be suspicious, because that is usually just the difference between bought/sold (and fees) and doesn't account for the infrastructure costs of trading.

Thats why I like these public SEC documents so much, because they have to use GAAP so you know exactly what they mean.


You are wrong. I'm sure you mean $750M, but they only have 200 employees, Goldman has 40,000. HFT is extremely lucrative.


Thanks for correcting; yes, I meant that Virtu makes a small fraction of what Goldman makes. Goldman, of course, is not principally an HFT firm.


Does that list include the HFT arms of the bigger traditional firms? Goldman bought into Perseus[1], so I assume if Perseus counts for them, but I imagine there may be some larger firms with HFT divisions that don't report separately.

1: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-21/goldman-sa...




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