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Every single company on that list deserved to die.


> Every single company on that list deserved to die.

Hi, I'm Brent Ozar, the cofounder of the first company in the list. (Ah, the joys of alphabetical sorting.)

I've written a big long post[1] about why we stopped selling to the EU, but here's the short story: the EU only represented 5% of our revenue, and for that small of revenue, I wasn't prepared to risk the GDPR's fines if any one of the third party tools we use had a problem.

During our GDPR prep with our attorneys, it was completely clear that the third party app ecosystem was in no way ready for GDPR enforcement actions. For example, we use WordPress and WooCommerce to sell online training classes. I'm a database administrator, and I know dang well that WP and WC aren't encrypting student data at rest, nor do they encrypt the other fields where people put student data - let alone how some of the plugins handle student data by storing it in the posts table, which was never designed to handle that kind of thing. If I had to face EU officials, I could never say with a straight face, "Oh yes, I was completely confident in WordPress's abilities to keep customer data secure."

I have confidence that someday, apps like WP and WC will have a better GDPR compliance story that doesn't just meet the bare letter of the law, but also the spirit. When they do, I'll be all about selling to the EU.

I'm doing the preparations that I can - for example, we've got a Privacy Policy that lays out our interactions with other partners, and lets EU folks request their data & delete it.

However, this is just the life of a small bootstrapped business: sometimes, you gotta make choices to focus on your best customers. 5% of my customers were threatening me with regulatory action that might result in huge fines if I let a ball drop. Unfortunately, I only have so many hours in the day. If I have the choice between doing regulatory paperwork for 5% of my customers, versus adding more value for 95% of my customers, I gotta make the obvious choice.

[1] https://www.brentozar.com/archive/2017/12/gdpr-stopped-selli...


That is a straight up dumb thing to say.

Care to explain why "Brent Ozar, IT consulting services" (first company on the list) deserves to die?


Phrasing is harsh, but from the sibling thread:

> If I had to face EU officials, I could never say with a straight face, "Oh yes, I was completely confident in WordPress's abilities to keep customer data secure."

Should this business really continue handling potentially user data if it can’t guarantee it will be secure down the line ?


> it can’t guarantee it will be secure down the line ?

Then no business can handle user data?

There's no such thing as a guarantee. You can do what you define as the best effort to secure it, but you can't guarantee it will be secure.


Well, he himself said as an explanation that he couldn't audit the user data he received to ensure deletion or to ensure that it didn't fall into the wrong hands.


Uh, no, I did not say that.


You did say you could not ensure that your users data was secure, due to limitations of Wordpress and various poorly coded plugins.

Which is tantamount to saying you cannot endure it doesn’t fall into the wrong hands?


That's not what he said.

He stated that people contact the company via many different methods: email, twitter, Instagram, etc... GDPR mandates that when the user demands it the company must delete all associated records. This small company doesn't have the resources (or doesn't want to waste time) to go through all emails, all twitter exchanges, etc... and expunge them all every time someone demands it.

As far as WordPress plugins go - I get that too. The place where I work has 100s of 3rd party packages. To go through them all would require Y2K level of effort to make sure they comply and/or upgrade ones that don't.

So I am not at all surprised that Brent Ozar didn't think EU was worth the effort.


This looks like an overzealous interpretation of the law more than anything else. Looking at both the founder's comment and yours, I can only +1 hannasanarion's comment.

And because someone will probably ask "why", here is why: 1) The GDPR was not designed to drown small businesses into expensive processes forcing them into bankruptcy or into cancelling their expansion in Europe. It was designed as to force business owners into thinking twice when they plan on getting rich by exploiting and reselling customer data to third-parties, or by performing "smart" operations on this data (i.e. any company that sticks the words "AI" or "smart" or "neural" or "deep" close to "customer data" in its business model).

2) If a user agreement (or privacy policy) specifies that data requests should only be carried out through medium X (e.g. an email address) then that shuts down all discussions surround the "people contact the company via many different methods: email, twitter, Instagram, etc..." argument.

3) "I'm a database administrator, and I know dang well that WP and WC aren't encrypting student data at rest, nor do they encrypt the other fields where people put student data." So what? GDPR nowhere says "student data should be encrypted at rest". It says it should be protected from unauthorized access, but not that it should be encrypted. Encryption is one way to respond to this requirement, and 9 times out of 10, it will be implemented with security flaws much worse than simply enforcing access control to the data. By trying to address a problem that does not exist with a solution that is inadequate, this business owner basically failed at his primary mission: managing risk.

Two arguments raised, two arguments completely wrong. Hence the justified conclusion: I am glad that these business shutdown or stopped playing with EU citizens data following the enactment of the GDPR.


> GDPR nowhere says "student data should be encrypted at rest". It says it should be protected from unauthorized access,

The reality is that you can't protect unencrypted data from unauthorized access. You can try, but you can't guarantee it, not when you have hosting partners, for example. Encryption is just one completely reasonable defense mechanism that needs to be part of a larger strategy. I wasn't comfortable defending the company without personally identifiable data being encrypted. You might be. I'm not.

> this business owner basically failed at his primary mission: managing risk.

To the contrary, I succeeded. I eliminated the risk at the cost of 5% of my revenue. I sleep great at night not worrying about the GDPR.


Each item on the list deserves a little blurb on why GDPR "forced" it's removal from the EU market.

Examples: Unroll.me's entire business model was made illegal in the EU.

Hitman: Absolution faced problems in taking ownership of its EU servers.

The two games Loadout and Super Monday Night Combat both claimed not having the resources necessary to comply with GDPR. For perspective Loadout had a peak of 208 concurrent players in 2018[0] while SMNC had a peak of 40 players in 2018[1].

[0] https://steamcharts.com/app/208090 [1] https://steamcharts.com/app/104700


What's wrong with Pottery Barn?


"GDPR has made it so that only large multinationals can steal your personal data :["




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