Yeah, I don't buy it. I've made a few attempts to get into TikTok, because my wife and friends are into it, and I have not been able to find any positive or quality content. It's mostly low quality memes and rude or otherwise vulgar attention seeking. I understand the appeal, given my experience with other social networks, but I definitely don't buy the narrative that it's in any way "good".

I agree with you - it rewards attention seeking behavior and short attention spans.

That said I understand the term of good quality - in that it isn't vitriolic political messaging, conspiracy theories etc. It's mostly devoid of any true meaning - more like entertaining, sometimes hilarious content. I wouldn't say it's enlightening or provides much educational value. As I said early it also probably reinforces short attention span, attention seeking dopamine feed back loops... likely long term damage to brain development.

Just my opinion, no facts here.

It also creates this expectation that your life is a performance for other people or that you produce content for other people to digest to get your dopamine rewards. There's going to be a strange generation coming down the pipeline.

Isn’t all social media like this though?

yes to an extent, but there is a spectrum. I would count most forums under the umbrella of "social media", but for the most part I don't find them to have that performative aspect. platforms where your account is more strongly tied to your IRL identity and photos/videos are the main thing shared tend to be a lot more performative.

Tiktok has exceedingly powerful filter bubble effects. As a result, the nearly universally derided "straight-tiktok" (which is where you start and dominated by conventional social media influencers) is fundamentally different than other parts of the app.

My fyp is a combination of good natured dancing, linguistics, crowd sources music, hank green, a few comedy creators who engage positively with mental health and feminist topics, and animals doing silly things, recently a lot of possums. That's interspersed with memes and jokes, but very few that are particularly rude.

I agree. My fyp also has Dad Green, older LGBT creators, young PhD & postdocs explaining science Qs, lots & lots of dogs, linguists, cooking, trees, lakes, geology, etc. Plenty of light hearted dancing, but everybody seems to be pretty chill and glad to engage with their audience. It's pretty easy to get responses from creators, as compared to YouTube creators.

You have to scroll through for maybe ten minutes and interact with posts that you actually like. Their system very quickly figures out what to show you. The general population of tiktok videos is pretty bad.

I suppose that's true of all social media. I think the default videos on TT are pretty much like the trending section of YouTube.

I know I risk sounding offensive but please accept that this is just an honest inquiry. Have you considered that you are causing that sort of content to hit your “for you page” by how your engaging with it? I ask because if someone asked me for a description of what’s most on tiktok based on what is in my feeds, it would be woodworking, cooking, arduinio projects and 3D printing stuff, with a bit of stand-up and DnD. I didn’t set any preferences or such to make it so, it just ender up that way through what I liked and the half a dosen people I follow.

I am in no way under the illusion that this is what most see. But i have to question if people that complain about Charlie Damelio and similar people being shown too much, just aren’t spending a lot of time watching the videos, commenting and liking them. If you scroll past they stop popping up.

Overall the content creators I see content from seem extremely good for these smaller niche communities.

As a plus, the most unbiased source of content for the BLM protests I found was tiktok, because it was just livestreams and videos from the protests with little possibility to editorialize it. Instead of anchors screaming “violent!” Or sternly saying “peaceful!” You got streamers on spot showing exactly how violent or peaceful certain situations were.

Yes. Use the search, find a few videos you like on topic X. Interact with them (like them, comment on them, follow creators). There that is most of the interaction needed to influence your feed.

Then as you encounter stuff you like click hashtags that look interesting, explore sounds to find similar videos, checkout a producers other videos.

In the end of the day, it is entertainment business, that pretty much sums it up. Hollywood isn't better when it comes to attention seeking behavior.

Thought of this wholesomeness aspect today as well:

I watch a lot of strength training/weight lifting videos on TikTok, and I would say the vast majority of the comments are supportive, positive and/or constructive.

I appreciate a lot my comment is apples vs oranges (because times are very different) - but I can still remember using MySpace, Facebook and Twitter for the first time. They all started pretty wholesome and pretty great before 'the real world' kind of seeped in.

Early Twitter (in particular) was a game changer for me, who was working from home for the second time in my life. I had people to talk to and bounce things off and all of a sudden work wasn't so lonely (as I had been the first time I tried). There was a genuine community feel without all the snark and unpleasantness.

I don't use TikTok, but I hope they'll be prescient enough to see where the others have struggled and keep on top their content policies, communities and moderation.

I think one of the problem is when networks start mixing topics and people.

If it focuses on people, you can meet with real friends, and that's fine, because you get along.

If it focuses on topics, it is also fine, you meet people you don't know, but because you talk about subject you all enjoy, that's fine.

Problem starts when the two mix. If you enjoy astronomy for example, the other guy may be an asshole, but you probably don't even know and you get along fine, because all you do is talk astronomy. But if the network thinks that because you like the same thing, he must also be your friend, then your feed starts filling with assholish things.

I have seen this play out on Instagram a few years ago.

Stage 1: The person is relatable, the videos are simple and to the point.

Stage 2: The following has grown, and the person now posts more frequently, however the quality/humor/personal touches are reduced. Less content about fitness, more about personal lifestyle

Stage 3: Monetization. Workout PDFs, constant advertising of fitness products (protein shakes, weight belts, etc), lots of hollow 'motivation' posts. The audience keeps growing, but the community has disappeared.

Isn't the problems from precisely what you are saying? If you fall into a recommendation hole, as long as they don't get moderation right it might be the wrong kind of hole. For impressionable audience, it might not be a good thing.

TikTok's moderation team is pretty on point. Far better than any social network I've ever used before.

I don't think the commenters who say they only get weird or bad content actually know how TikTok works, or how to use it. You can't just scroll your FYP and expect to get new content, you have to go out of your way to find it. FYP is just a feedback loop of videos you keep watching.

If you want to start getting more queer content, for example, start searching the #lgbt or similar tags and watching/liking/commenting. Your FYP changes really quick.

> TikTok's moderation team is pretty on point.

Not the experience for my circle of friends.

> for example, start searching the #lgbt or similar tags and watching/liking/commenting.

What if some hate video for the community gets posted under the same/similar tag? I am not sure how it is now but mid last year one friend saw something very offensive on a tag related to his nationality with a lot of likes.

It will get reported and deleted _very_ quickly.

I don't think its very fair to claim people who don't think the content is any good 'just dont understand it'.

Plus the conversation is about under 16s, I highly doubt what they're seeing is the same as you, so it's not really relevant what your feed is like.

What you described isn't necessarily positive. If you are depressed or self harm, maybe keep watching those videos are bad for you.

This isn’t much unlike the question of moderation in regards to Parler for example. We need to talk about all views and ideas and opinions, whether it’s political or about your mental health. Well, maybe sometimes it’s both.

But you can’t bar talking about it because sometimes it’s bad. It’s tough.

Not saying you’re wrong at all. Just suggesting there’s a lot of nuance here and it’s difficult to manage. Your point is very correct and important.

The main point here I guess is that Children can't necessarily judge that.

I don't think its particularly helpful as based on what I've seen myself, a lot of these 'support networks' actually veer on glorifying the issues.

You shouldn't base your social group on an echo chamber.

Totally agree on your final point! Though that's a discussion for another time...

The glorification can provide short term relief but creates countless more issues than it solves.

He specifically said there is a support network for him thru tiktok. How can you say ‘keep watching those videos are bad for you’. That is dismissive at best.

Just because he thinks it's doing good doesn't mean it's an effective way of coping, it could actually be making the problem even worse.

These issues should be dealt with using advice from professionals in combination with a support network.

That's such a weird way of making statements. We do make decisions about who we make friends with, who we engage with, without the need of someone to decide those for us. and even more importantly, who?

> If you are depressed or self harm, maybe keep watching those videos are bad for you.

This may sound counter-intuitive, but please don't judge that sort of thing until you've gone through it.

There are many online communities that seem dangerous or destructive to people who haven't gone through the issues, but are actually incredibly helpful to those who do.

There really are so many trash self-help internet communities in the wild. These algorithms are amazing at placing people that share an interest in re-experiencing their buried childhood insecurities together and hire the most active commiserators to build their community.

It definitely doesn't seem like the communities that actually help each other gain a sense of security required to pause and self-reflect and unpack their issues get very popular because the click-optimizing algorithms don't give them a chance.

I feel like all the hate is aimed at the stereotype that TikTok is before they actually use it. If your view of TikTok is through the lens of media or the occasional repost, you'll find that it's mostly teens dancing to catchy music, which there is a ton of on the platform.

But there's so much more content under the surface that doesn't get talked about. Travel TikTokers give me ideas of where to go in 2021, I stole an Oatmeal recipe from a bodybuilder on there that I still make every morning. I took some ideas about Lightroom from a number of Photography TikTokers, the rabbit holes are endless.

TikTok I think it in it's "pre-mainstream" phase where you get the best of user content but it still hasn't been muddied by promo deals, partnerships and big media. Sure big media is there but most of the content I see reminds me of YouTube in that magical time between when it went mainstream with users but not big brands and corporations.

How is that different from any other social network though? Even when I was a teen, there was no shortage of message boards and forums having these kinds of discussions. Sure, the video aspect wasn't there as in general, people stayed anonymous, but the sense of support was still there.

Pockets of supportive communities feel rare online that when you hit one, especially at a young age, they feel incredibly refreshing. Most of my early internet experiences were hard lessons but once in a while I ran into a group of nice people who taught me a lot and were supportive when I was getting started. It impacted the way I think about online communities.

Personally, I've enjoyed TikTok. I find the different cultures around the world making videos about their cultures to be very informative. And I'm amazed at some of the level of comedy available on the platform.

Edit nevermind