Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

I'm happy with macOS and the UI/UX on Windows and Linux still feels crap in comparison, not to mention the mandatory spyware on Microsoft's side of the fence.


I take the opposite view. macOS UX sucks. A few examples off the top of my head: I regularly find myself frustrated that there is no volume mixer for applications, spotlight search is atrocious and often returns different results for the exact same query, finder is also clunky as hell and won't allow me to do simple things like directly input a directory path string, the search feature also behaves completely counterintuitively by performing a global search rather than limiting the scope of the search to the directory you're in, trying to get macOS to permanently show hidden files is a chore and resets after every update, the touch bar is horrid and regularly causes me to accidentally take actions I did not intend, updates are often very unstable and fraught with world breaking bugs and issues that prevent me from doing my work, xcode is generally a nightmare and a mandatory one... the list goes on and on. Linux and Windows might not look as pretty but they are far more functional with respect to accomplishing my work.


Agreed, here are some more things I’ve noticed weird about macOS:

* When a Macbook is plugged into an external monitor, if you close its lid, it will only stay awake if the power cord is plugged in (otherwise it goes to sleep). There is no notification that tells the user this, you’re just supposed to know it I guess.

* On the Displays page of System Preferences, the only way to get it to re-scan for connected monitors is to hold down Alt, which makes a hidden button appear called “Detect Displays”. Again you’re just supposed to know this.

* The green “traffic light” button in the title bar makes the current window fullscreen instead of maximizing it. I never see people use full screen in real life, they always maximize everything

* When in the fullscreen mode mentioned previously, the Cmd ` shortcut to switch between windows of the same program doesn’t work


* When connected to a monitor, there is no way to turn of the laptop's screen, without plugging in and closing the lid. This will overheat your laptop if you are doing anything slightly intensive.

* Sometimes you will lose windows when you disconnect the external monitor.

* Touchpad and mouse scrolling direction is linked. So at least one of them will feel bad to use.

* Macos will randomly choose wallpapers for each new desktop you create, there is no setting for this behavior.

* Due to the unnecessary Cmd button, shortcuts are very difficult to remember. In VS code, to search : Cmd+F. To go to line : Ctrl+G. Drives me insane.

Honestly, I hate Macos. Windows is 10x better. I don't understand what people like about this system.


> Touchpad and mouse scrolling direction is linked. So at least one of them will feel bad to use.

I get that this goes against your preference but to Apple it's either "your finger moves the content" or "your finger moves the viewport", and that translates to both your finger on the touchpad and on the mousewheel. Remember that Apple sells the Magic Mouse that doesn't even have a mousewheel -- the whole top of the mouse behaves like a touchpad. That's why the settings are linked.

> unnecessary Cmd button

On Apple computers the button has been used for keyboard shortcuts for the last 40 years.

> In VS code, to search : Cmd+F. To go to line : Ctrl+G. Drives me insane.

That's VS's problem, not ours and certainly not Apple's. Apple software and native macOS apps always use the Cmd key as the primary modifier, only adding others for more complicated shortcuts.

I agree that Windows is 10x better than macOS -- at being Windows. You WILL be dissapointed if you expect macOS to be like Windows with a different skin.


> I get that this goes against your preference

This is not just my preference. This is how mouse scroll wheels have always worked. The settings for scroll wheel and track pad scrolling are shown separately too, in apples own software. You'd never know looking at it that they are linked internally. If it is a single setting, it should be a single setting!

> Apple software and native macOS apps always use the Cmd key as the primary modifier, only adding others for more complicated shortcuts.

Is switching to next tab in safari also a "complicated shortcut"? Because that uses Ctrl too.


> This is how mouse scroll wheels have always worked.

Yes, and touch based devices reminded us that maybe the way mouse scroll wheels had always worked was not the best way after all. Apple's defaults since Lion have been "finger moves content" on all their input methods: iDevice touch screens, touchpads, the Magic Mouse and 3rd party mouse scroll wheels. Again, you may not like it, but it's consistent. I do agree that it could be a single less-confusing setting, but the Mouse and Trackpad screens are unfortunately separate.

> switching to next tab in safari ... uses Ctrl too.

It's switching to next tab in everything, not only Safari. And the choice isn't even that weird, obviously Cmd + Tab is taken and Ctrl pairs nicely with Shift to reverse, so why not? They key is there and AFAIK Ctrl + Tab doesn't override anything important, unlike, well, Ctrl + C.


> It's switching to next tab in everything, not only Safari.

So where's the consistency? I thought all shortcuts were supposed to use Cmd as the modifier and Ctrl was only for complicated shortcuts. But switching tabs in a browser is one of the most common shortcut. So why is it Ctrl?

You can't say because "everything" else uses Ctrl in this context. Because then they should fix the mouse issue also. The crux of my problem is that shortcuts randomly use Ctrl or Cmd, there is no predictability or consistency.

But I do recognise that keyboard shortcuts rely on familiarity and tradition more than consistency and logic, so this isn't a major deal for me.

The bigger issues are the other stuff. External monitor support is as good as broken. Full screen apps are as good as unusable. OS updates regularly break critical features like Settings and Fingerprinter. And on and on. I really never had these sorts of bugs in my entire life using Windows.


> I thought all shortcuts were supposed to use Cmd as the modifier and Ctrl was only for complicated shortcuts. But switching tabs in a browser is one of the most common shortcut. So why is it Ctrl?

macOS apps and 3rd party apps that are not ports from other platforms use Cmd as the primary modifier, i.e. the overwhelming majority of shortcuts are Cmd + something. If your apps use Ctrl a lot, they're probably Linux or Windows ports that don't respect the macOS way. There's plenty of those.

They could've used Cmd + G to go to the next tab and Cmd + H to go back (for example), but in this case it's pretty clear why they went with ctrl + tab, isn' t it? It's convenient, makes sense and it's quite close to the close-window Cmd + W and you can easily add a Shift there to go back.

> Full screen apps are as good as unusable.

I use fullscreen apps all the time (on the laptop screen or smaller monitors) and they're perfectly fine. Some people don't like the paradigm, but that's just personal preference again.


> Some people don't like the paradigm, but that's just personal preference again.

No, I love the paradigm. It's just that random stuff is broken. For example, if you have 2 chrome windows, and at least one of them is full-screen, there is no keyboard shortcut to switch between them. Cmd+` is broken.


Ctrl-Tab and Ctrl-Shift-Tab both work, but I think the original shortcuts were: Cmd-{ and Cmd-} for switching tabs ( Cmd-[ and Cmd-] are back and forward too ). Both of these still work, and are what I've used for 13 years now.


You can do 1 by setting boot-args to a certain value [1]. But even then it's not the cleanest experience since you have to start in clamshell mode and then open the screen. And if the computer goes to sleep the effect is lost.

[1] https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/152203/turn-off-ma...


> When a Macbook is plugged into an external monitor, if you close its lid, it will only stay awake if the power cord is plugged in (otherwise it goes to sleep).

If it allowed you to run in clamshell on battery power, you'd be able to, for example, switch your monitor to show a different input, forget about the (closed, silent) MacBook and run the battery down to zero with no indication.

> The green “traffic light” button in the title bar makes the current window fullscreen instead of maximizing it.

That's because "maximize" is a Windows thing and you're not on Windows. The green button feature is called Zoom (I believe) in macOS and it's basically "resize to content". The fullscreen thingy used to be a separate button (Mavericks), which IMO was a bit better.

> When in the fullscreen mode mentioned previously, the Cmd ` shortcut to switch between windows of the same program doesn’t work.

The shortcut switches between windows that are on the same Space (so that it switches between your different casual-browsing and work-related windows inside their respective spaces if you're the kind of person who keeps different spaces for different situations/projects). A fullscreen app doesn't cover other apps, like on Windows, but instead goes to its own space. That's why the shortcut can't do anything.


And in "full screen" mode, it auto-hides the menu bar. Unusable for serious work. No way to show it by default, either. Absolutely obnoxious.

All of these design affordances point to one single driving usecase: media consumption. Actual productive work is not a consideration.


Finder can go directly to paths with Go > Go to Folder… (Command+Shift+G) and search scope can be changed to current directory in Finder preferences. Hidden file visibility can be toggled with Command+Shift+. in both Finder windows and open/save dialogs.


Within Finder Preferences there is a dropdown that asks you when performing a search whether to use global or current directory.

And for volume mixer this exists: https://github.com/kyleneideck/BackgroundMusic

I have to say it really doesn't seem like you spent much effort trying to actually fix your issues.


Forced to install third party software for a basic OS functionality? Nah.


Right there in the boat with you.

I've used Linux extensively in the past (and OS/2, BeOS and more. Even spent a few years as assistant head developer to a deceased linux distribution), and MacOS X just works. Yes there are usually bugs in new major versions, but _nothing_ comes close in integration, be that between apps on the machine itself, or various devices in the Apple eco system.

Yes, you can do it all with different apps on different platforms, but until you've been "all in" you have no idea what i'm talking about.

Maybe you have an app that will extend your desktop on your tablet, now right click the desktop and select "scan document with iphone" and use your phone to scan a document directly to the desktop.

Need a password on your phone that is only on your computer ? fine, select it on your computer and paste it on your iphone. No special keys involved, it just works(tm)

No other platform offers that amount of integration.

considering that Apple is in the hardware business and relatively uninterested in my personal data, i also have a tendency to trust them with my data far more than i trust anything Microsoft or Google.

I've been a very happy Mac user since 2005, and nothing i've seen in recent years has done anything to change my mind. Whatever "obstacles" people run into, they somehow miss me completely. I still run homebrew or macports on my machine, install just whatever i like, and everything works as well as it ever did.


It wasn’t until I had a MacBook, iPhone, iPad and macmini where I really appreciated how the ecosystem just worked, and finally started using iCloud


Every time I look at MacOS (been using it daily for 12+ years) I still feel like it's a toy OS not made for any real work.


I think the Windows UX is pretty dogshit overall, but part of the appeal of Linux is how varied each user experience can be. You're expected to tailor a workflow that works for you, rather than adjusting an existing one to fit your needs. For some people, OSX just "clicks", but that's the case for every operating system.


> not to mention the mandatory spyware on Microsoft's side of the fence.

I'm curious. What does Microsoft do that Apple doesn't? I'm a happy Windows 10 user. What should I be worried about?


Try taking a look at the "privacy" page under your live.com account.

They know _everything_ you do on your computer. It's of course for "your benefit". They know every application you lauch, how long it was running for, and if it had input parameters, they also know which files you opened.

They know what you search for (if you use IE/Edge), and lots of other "telemetry" data.

Here you go : https://account.microsoft.com/privacy/activity-history


How does that differ from the telemetry Apple uses?


Microsoft collects all this information despite having answered "no" to every "do you want to" during setup. _If_ Apple uses telemetry, it tends to keep it "on device".

Frequently visited locations ? Yup, on device. If you buy a new device, you restart your frequently visited locations.

Anything AI ? Yup, also on device. The only exception i can think of is photos with iCloud enabled. If you store your photos in the cloud, Apple will process them for faces/locations/whatever AI use. That's the reason you can enter "car and dog" into the search field on your iPhone and get all images containing both.

It's all here : https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/


Except you can turn that off


Not easily. I answered "NO" to everything during setup, and it still collects just about everything. And this is Windows 10 Pro.

I'd much prefer an "opt in" scenario where _nothing_ is reported unless i specifically allow it. I'm aware that some things go hand in hand, like "find my device" requires my device to report it's location, but i can't remember EVER opting in to sending every app i open, filename of every file i open, every link i browse, to them.


I would double check if you turned it off. I did and there is no information there. I would much prefer if it was opt in, but that is a trade off im willing to make.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: