Whataboutism has its limits. When the far left, specifically Tankies, and left communities online, are literally being China apologists while calling Israel a genocide-apartheid-colonial country... you kind of know the logic fallacies are the other way around.
Can you point any fingers? I have not heard any of the positions you mention from any leftist place I frequent - not from Jacobin, not from leftist YouTube, not from any member of "the squad" or any other leftist member of Congress. Who exactly are you accusing of being anti-Israel but pro-China?
Please go to [1] + [2] searches, while not a big channel on YouTube, ~200K subscribers in politics is kind of big for alternative-media with the top videos getting ~500K views.
And now, please note that every video on China is something like "China is actually doing more for Climate-Change", or "Is China to Blame For Covid-19?" all suggesting China has so many good parts that we missed...
While Israel search result are all about the conflict, ".. The [Media] BIAS", ".. The Death Toll".
While Israel is dominant enough to deserve such critics. The Bias of the channel against Israel and Pro China is a spectacle to be hold.
There is some bias in their choice of covering Israel's crimes much more often than China's, but I don't see the China apologism. They have a more nuanced view on China's global warming actions than you often see, but that view is quite realistic. I have also found one article [0] covering China's appalling treatment of Uighurs - that is little coverage, but it at least proves that they are not entirely covering China's crimes. They also mention Mao's atrocities in another article [1], though more in passing.
When you say "China apologism" I expect to see people praising China's "wonderful socialist state", talk about how free and happy the Chinese are, defend China's treatment of Uighurs (or deny it's happening) etc. Explaining that China, while being the top country by GHG total emissions, is not even in top 10 by per capita emissions is not China apologism - it is simply stating an uncomfortable fact.
Sure. Look no further. The co-founder [0], Aaron Bastani, has a lot to say about Israel (nothing less than onslaught
ofcourse [1]) But according to some of his twitter, we get all that you wanted:
* praising China's "wonderful socialist state" [2] (more like its totalaric structure)
* how ... happy the Chinese are [3]
* defend China's treatment of Uighurs [4] (downplay it a lot)
And after I looked, that one article you gave ([0] in your comment) is the only time they say anything about it, no mentions on their youtube or twitter. Furthermore, in the opening statement of the article, they described what the Uighur experienced as ".. have long faced discrimination". Wow... such strong words for what happend [5]. Brave and not apologetic.
Again, these are not the "smoking gun" examples you make them out to be. Item [3] in particular is a widely accepted opinion - you will find it expressed enthusiastically by such "tankies" as Bill Gates [0] and The Economist [1].
For item [4], his opinion seems rather complex. Here he is praising a thread that condemns China's treatment of Uyghurs in no uncertain terms [2]. Here he is again mentioning the U(i/y)ghur problem and China's authoritarian surveillance state [3].
(Note that if you want to see real honest-to-god tankies, there are plenty in the replies to his tweets. It seems an outlet called Gray Media, that they cite, is also a good example of actual tankies, directly claiming the Uyghur crisis is a "Western fabrication").
It's also important to remember that there is a major difference between Israel and China speaking from a UK/US/EU journalist: our countries are generally pouring billions of dollars of direct support, and heaps of diplomatic support, for Israel. They are doing no such thing for China. So, we have a much better reason to criticize Israel compared to China: we are partly responsible for Israel's crimes; while we bear little to no responsibility for China's (with some exceptions, such as slave labour for the production of export goods, or the status of Hong Kong). We can huff and puff all we want at China, it won't budge. Israel will.
What you're doing here is similar to people complaining that Chomsky criticized the USA without criticizing the USSR as much or more. His point was simple: he lived in the USA and had some measure of say on its direction. He had no such measure of say on the USSR's behavior, so he was naturally more silent on it.
[2] https://twitter.com/aaronbastani/status/1285358145003556864 - "Great thread Ammar.", in response to a thread that says things like "This repression is widely documented: it’s difficult to cover-up concentration camps. It’s also hard to argue against the statements of escapees who describe being ‘brainwashed’, as well as being tortured for speaking the Uyghur language and reciting the Qur’an."
Yeah.. you are being dishonest right now. He clearly said in my [3] image it doesn't qualify as genocide since the economist said so. And the thread he endorse is so bizarre. Because the USA hurt Muslim before they need to keep silent now when other do it? Who would say that other than people who doesn't care.. if it isn't the best giveaway of all. So I gave you a clear proof that a person, a cofounder of a big left alternative media, is clearly a inconsistent tankie who endorse China fully while criticize Israel.
I don't care some fact are true. There are a lot of nice facts about Israel too. And I don't care if there are honest tankies. In the original comment you said you don't know anybody like that. Now you know. and still ignore him.
> He clearly said in my [3] image it doesn't qualify as genocide since the economist said so.
So parroting the line of the Economist and US state department makes you a tankie?
> Because the USA hurt Muslim before they need to keep silent now when other do it?
The thread doesn't say they should keep silent, it says they should not apply sanctions (and obviously should not use military force) against China.
> So I gave you a clear proof that a person, a cofounder of a big left alternative media, is clearly a inconsistent tankie who endorse China fully while criticize Israel.
I still don't see him as endorsing China.
Anyway, I concede that the people he attracted in his comments are indeed examples of tankies, and I also found this Gray Media site that fulfills the description you gave.
Still, I will not concede that this is in any way a mainstream opinion in leftist circles. It is a fringe position, and the vast majority of Leftists in Europe and the Americas are generally against all oppressive regimes, including China and Israel occupation of Palestine. Most are much more vocal against human rights abuses than industrialists and billionaires, who could care less as long as their pockets are secure.
The only exception is global warming, where the left realistically sees that China is doing about as well as most industrial countries, and much, much better than the USA. To be fair, I think Israel is also decent on this front, but that is much easier for such a tiny country.
That's just 'What about China', with a sprinkling of assuming that the entire left is one homogeneous group. (They're not, and most of the left makes fun of tankies too.)
No, Because you can simply answer "China bad too, so back to you..". If you can't say it, welp, we got you, It's not the Israel government\policies you hate...
It’s pretty absurd to declare that “tankies” (presumably meaning “Western European communist party members who explicitly supported the Soviet subjugation of Eastern Europe”) is co-extensive with “the far left”, when most of the left considered Soviet foreign policy abhorrent.
Beyond that, here in the USA, I don’t know anyone who I would consider both a “China apologist” and a “leftist” (“far” or otherwise) – China has not been anything remotely resembling socialist for at least a generation, and the China apologists I know all vote GOP (or would if they could vote).
Unless by “apologist” you just mean “has a low expectation that China’s political system is going to collapse or radically democratize in the near future, and thinks that some level of economic and diplomatic engagement is necessary despite China’s human rights record”.
In modern parlance 'Tankie' is generally used to refer to people on the left who support authoritarian governments. (see second paragraph in definition section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie#Definition)
So yeah basically the intersection of "left wing" and "thinks the Chinese government is great" (which as you point out is not a particularly large group of people, at least in the USA).
