Which is a shame. Someone wearing business casual is so much more pleasant to the eye than typical sloppy hacker wear. Especially once you start getting older and flabbier.

These are also culturally dependent, and are in-group/out-group signals. Many people in Silicon Valley explicitly want to keep people who believe that business casual is more pleasing to the eye out of their social circles. It's a value judgment; to them, hoodies are more pleasing to the eye, and more comfortable, and they don't want people who believe otherwise in their companies.

Right, that's the point of the parent of this subthread. They (the hoodie-wearers) would probably insist that they don't judge based on dress or appearance, but they do, and maybe more harshly than the suit-wearers. It's just what people do. I grew up wearing suits to work, shaving every day, and wearing a short neat haircut. I don't as much anymore, but I don't wear hoodies with pizza sauce stains either, and I don't respect the people who do as much as the ones who look like they at least glanced in the mirror before they left the house.

You'll meet suit-wearing people, business casual people, and pizza-stained-hoodie people. Some will be conventionally attractive, some not. Some old, some young, some male, some female, some of one race, some another. Some will be skilled, diligent, and productive, some will be well-spoken and good communicators, some will be honest, some will be punctual... some will be not.

Some of those things are choices that matter and should impact your respect for someone else. Some are not, do not, and should not.

Personally, as a controls engineer who frequents messy manufacturing facilities, dressing in a suit gets in the way of getting work done. It subtly conveys "I'm too important to get my hands dirty, I'll leave the grunt work to the grunts." That kind of unwillingness to do whatever's required to get the job done is a point against those folks in my circles. I do understand that people who come to work in a suit may have different struggles vying for status and trying to send the right social signals in conference rooms, and I don't envy them those tasks - but please don't think less of me as a human because of what I choose to wear.

You said:

> please don't think less of me as a human because of what I choose to wear.

But doesn't:

> dressing in a suit gets in the way of getting work done. It subtly conveys "I'm too important to get my hands dirty, I'll leave the grunt work to the grunts."

mean that you think less of others because of what they choose to wear?

Only because it affects the ability to accomplish our shared goals. If we're sitting in an office at keyboards, and you want to wear a suit, go right ahead! A woman in heels in an environment that ought to have steel-toed boots, or a hoodie wearer in an office whose hygiene is so poor that the smell affects those around them, both impact things that are actually important.

But when those personal choices are immaterial, whether choosing to over- or under-dress, they shouldn't affect what I think of others or what others think of me.

I didn't say it but I was talking in the context of a standard office setting that most of us probably work in.

It’s more about the effort I think than the style. Well fitted suits and business casual looks good, but so does a well fitted shirt and jeans. On the flip side, a poorly fitted suit looks only marginally less sloppy than poorly fitted hacker wear. Comp-sci types who don’t put effort into their wardrobes don’t really look any better in business casual, at least in my experience from working in places where such clothes were required.

Doesn’t business causal mean like slacks and a lame tucked in pastel polo shirt? I think both a suit and hacker wear are more interesting

Don't forget about the Patagonia fleece vest! Many VC firms require someone to wear one to every meeting.

At this point, don't Polo shirts essentially say "Welcome to Chipotle/Best Buy"?

I think it's more like slacks and a button up. Polo shirts are super casual.

Depends on the context. When I was a SV biglaw associate, I wore slacks and button down, generally without coat (only for meetings). On 'casual Friday' I wore polo, typically with jeans. Basically, SV law firms are always 'business casual' unless you're going to court or a deposition. And on casual Fridays, it's even less formal.

I assume tech companies are more casual than big law firms, and that things may have gotten more casual in the decade since I left the law.

maybe. I'd like to think that is true but was not in my experience but I wish I had experimented more before everything went remote so maybe take what I am saying with a grain of salt on this matter. I definitely took shit for it although some people were fascinated. I think the exception is if you have long hair or are a steampunk enthusiast. I am not really kidding. Even then you might come off as odd.

I sometimes would have to go to nearby tech companies we worked with and the leads who would greet me would mention something like "oh sorry we didn't tell you that you don't have to wear a suit". You have to explain yourself and there is the implication that wearing a suit is somehow inappropriate.

If you need someone to disrespect you for being a steampunk enthusiast, I’m available. Nobody looks good in brown, and it seems to be the kind of people who think wearing a sleeveless vest is “fancy” - they actually look like wedding bartenders.

> You have to explain yourself and there is the implication that wearing a suit is somehow inappropriate.

If you're the only one wearing a suit, you look overdressed. It's as simple as that.