Perhaps I should have put "civilized" in quotes. We're talking about populations becoming accustomed to living in an large, organized state, paying taxes, and relying on the state for security and redress of grievances rather than warring with their neighbors. Basically, being part of an empire.
It's easier to absorb populations that are already part of an empire into another empire than it is to stitch a collection of sometimes warring tribes with different forms of organization into an empire. When Carthage fell, Rome was able to assume rule of Carthage's former colonies with relative ease, Carthage having already done the hard work of empire building.
Forcing the Gauls to become Romans was a considerably harder thing to do that required much bloodshed. It wasn't all Caesar. Caesar didn't even finish the job. Rome's efforts to absorb Gaul started long before Julius Caesar and continued after him as well. He only led one campaign in Gaul that we happen to have a historical record of, written by Caesar himself, who was a master of self-promotion.
What I was trying to point out is that the difference between Gaul and Spain was that the Romans had to create an imperial province in Gaul, while they inherited one that had already been created by Carthage in Spain.
Fair point about the before and after Caeser. The historical record is pretty clear that enormous volumes of Gauls died during their “civilization” at the hands of Rome.
It’s true that populations that have already been brutalized into an empire are easier to absorb by other empires. I guess I was responding to the language you were using that (to me) presumes that being smashed down and genocided into the murky doublethink of empire is a net positive for the cultures being rapaciously absorbed against their will.
It's easier to absorb populations that are already part of an empire into another empire than it is to stitch a collection of sometimes warring tribes with different forms of organization into an empire. When Carthage fell, Rome was able to assume rule of Carthage's former colonies with relative ease, Carthage having already done the hard work of empire building.
Forcing the Gauls to become Romans was a considerably harder thing to do that required much bloodshed. It wasn't all Caesar. Caesar didn't even finish the job. Rome's efforts to absorb Gaul started long before Julius Caesar and continued after him as well. He only led one campaign in Gaul that we happen to have a historical record of, written by Caesar himself, who was a master of self-promotion.
What I was trying to point out is that the difference between Gaul and Spain was that the Romans had to create an imperial province in Gaul, while they inherited one that had already been created by Carthage in Spain.