All I want is a quality split mechanical keyboard with Function keys. I use an IDE all day, I don't want to pull quadruple buckies every time I debug.
The Matias Ergo Pro is almost perfect, but I had two of them and they both failed within one year. I had one of each switch type (low force and regular) - both were missing some button presses and repeating other button presses.
You got a lot of exotic suggestions, I'll give one closer to normal: Perixx Periboard 535. Split (though non-adjustable), low profile mechanical switches with three options, three tilting levels, wired or wireless, with or without numpad. And has function keys. Also quite cheap.
I got the wired option with tactile brown switches and numpad, and I've been happy with this. I was looking for a replacement for MS Sculpt and didn't want one of the wild models, this finally ticked all the boxes.
Seconded. They're pretty good and I've found them a decent replacement for the MS Ergonomic 4000 keyboards that I used to use. Full size keyboard with keys in the normal places, reverse tilt, manageable F lock, and a cable to connect it to your computer.
I've got one with clicky blue switches, which is fun to type on but a bit loud, and one with silent red switches, which is pleasant to use but the key activation is perhaps a bit too light. I sometimes find myself pressing the keys when I thought I was just hovering my fingers.
The folding stands are a weak point. The MS 4000/Sculpt sort of design, whereby the riser is a solid piece of plastic that the keyboard rests on, is much better.
I like the stands. I need two different levels of tilt, full negative for the sitting position and the mid level for standing. It's really easy to switch between the levels so it fits well my use case.
I got one on Amazon for a little over retail and it’s a solid keyboard. I had a knockoff 65 before and you can definitely tell the difference in quality. I believe Microcenter has them in stock if you’re in the Bay.
I couldn't quite go for the 60%, but I have friends with the UHK60 and I really liked it as a keyboard.
I popped for the 80 as soon as the shipping times caught up to real time. It's a fantastic keyboard. I haven't gotten any of the clusters for it yet, but I'm very happy with my purchase.
Kinesis Freestyle Pro? I've got the non mechanical version (mechanical wasn't available when I purchased) and it's held up for many years. It's a great keyboard IMO.
The Freestyle Pro is almost a good keyboard. The Esc and function keys are all offset to the left by one key compared to a standard layout, which drove me nuts. I have a Freestyle Edge RGB now, which I like much better. (Though I replaced the wrist rests with some from Goldtouch.)
Depending upon the cost and how much they mean to you there are a couple of options.
One is to replace the switches. If they're hot swappable then it's easy. If they're not, it's hard -- but easy if you're willing to spend money on a desoldering iron. Depending upon your feelings here, I would consider it maintenance to keep it going if you love it -- particularly if you use it to prevent RSI.
A quick look shows matias does sell replacement switches -- which is usually the thing to go. Springs, crud, etc end up in the switches. Sometimes you can tear them apart to fix them, sometimes it's easier to toss them and replace them.
The typical desoldering tool for keyboards is something like this:
I meant that I am looking for a keyboard, not for a keyboard hobby.
Hahaha who am I kidding? Of course I have a keyboard hobby! I have a practical museum of various split and mechanical keyboards. But I don't want to be soldering them any more.
There's a certain trend to repairing existing electronics and keeping electronics waste out of landfills, right to repair and what not -- and that's the spirit I was talking about.
Even hot swap switches prevent more landfill waste as it makes it easy for people to replace bad switches. And if you want a reliable keyboard in the future, that's what you'll need, other wise it will just be more e-waste.
Owning 20 cars and maintaining them is a hobby. Owning 1 car and maintaining it is not -- it's life.
I've been running an Ergo Pro since 2015. Ordered like 40 extra key switches and have had to resolder in about a dozen as replacements so far. Annoying, but I'm keeping it going!
Gel wrist pads?... Not a great implementation. I either need to work up a 3d printed DIY replacement via covering TPU (or something of the like) or order a first party replacement.
I also have a "flat" gelpad on one of my Ergo Pros. Came that way from the factory, but it never really bothered me enough to complain to them. I love the gelpad palm rests (not wrist).
I agree, they’re darn near perfect, but they always end up with repeated characters or “key chatter”. It’s such a shame, I’ve basically resigned myself to buying a new one ever year or two, but I hate the waste.
I have a Moonlander and I genuinely don’t understand why so many split keyboards do this.
“Here’s a really nice split keyboard. But we’ve removed everything except the alphanumerics”
Whhhyyyy.
“Oh but it’s programmable. And you can have layers. And you can have macros”
Cool. I actually didn’t want any of that. I just wanted a single row of function keys. My Moonlander can somehow make space for a “meh” key, a “caps word” key, 3 keys in 2 variations for “change layer” but a play/pause/ volume keys are simply out of the question.
I completely agree. Moonlander would be perfect with a F key row and dedicated modifier keys. The purists will sneer, but they could always take off the keycaps and switches if they want to show off how minimal they are.
I don't spend all my time in vim, my job is mostly emails and docs now. Muscle memory decays for all the fancy chords/layers/macros/etc and I don't have infinite time to spend tweaking keyboard layouts.
I added a numeric layer where my left thumb activates the layer key and the numbers are arranged like a numpad on my right half. The dedicated number keys at the top row are now f keys. Highly recommend
That's an interesting idea. But it makes other key combinations quadruple buckies. For instance, in JetBrains IDEs Ctrl-Shift-4 sets bookmark number 4.
You don't need infinite time, you just need to do it until you get all your personal needs covered.
Personally I have an advantage 360 pro. The only function keys I actually use with frequency are F12 and F2, used for shortcuts in editors. I just put F12 and F2 on thumb keys. Problem solved.
Some people go all in on layers, but I actually use minimal layers at all. I can do everything I need with just the base layer from how I have it setup. I only have a second layer setup that allows using VIM-like navigation (i.e. up, down, left, right, page-down, page-up etc) from the home row in my browser. But technically I also have those on the base layer just in the normal positions.
I actually had a similar mindset, I do not want to have to create tons of layers and combinations, so I optimized my layout around just the base layout but added a layer just for convenience later on.
As much as i like the idea of these split keyboards that are more ergonomic, I can’t get over the idea of missing keys and having to use chords or new combinations of hotkeys. I use nearly every key of my 104 key keyboard. Literally pause/break and scroll lock are the only ones I don’t use; and I’ve remapped those to be volume controls. If anything, i’d like even more keys for macros and dedicated shortcuts.
But so many keyboards cut that number down so drastically. I use home, end, delete, page up/down, all the time not to mention the number pad as a whole, and all the Fkeys.
I was in the same boat, doing most text navigation on the keyboard and fully adapted to the quirky arrangement of home/end/pgup/pgdn of the Microsoft natural keyboard elite I’d been coding on for 23 years.
But I do a lot of nomading, so I really wanted a small keyboard. And I’m a tall guy, so I was looking for a full split (I tried the Kinesis Freestyle2 for a while but didn’t love it).
I bought a ZSA Voyager. The first day I went from ~120wpm to 20. I hated it and had buyer’s remorse. Second week, I was still switching to another keyboard in the afternoons because I was making so many typos and felt so tired. I swapped out most of the switches with higher force ones, and that helped a ton. It took about two months before the keyboard disappeared again and there was only me and the work.
The biggest single win is that backspace is under my right thumb next to space bar, which felt life-changing once I got used to it (if I were still using a normal keyboard, I’d probably re-map right alt to backspace). And while word selection with ctrl+shift+arrow took a bit longer to get used to, now I appreciate not having to move my fingers at all to hit the arrow keys.
Nine months later, you can pry the Voyager from my cold dead hands. It’s probably the last keyboard I’ll ever buy. I do wish it had two more keys (haven’t found good homes for Alt and ~) but overall I’m very happy with where I ended up.
One of the nice things about QMK is the ability to get secondary functions on double / triple tap and press and hold combinations. I also couldn't get comfortable with big chording combos, so for example a lot of the keys in my thumb cluster do double duty.
1) My space key is right CTRL when held down.
2) I have two keys for "<RET>", one on each thumb cluster, one is Alt when held down, the other is left CTRL.
3) Page up and down have their own keys on one of those clusters because I no longer needed them for the modifiers, and so page up and down are also home and end if they're held down.
4) Auto shift is on, and I've tuned to to eliminate most of the accidental shifts while keeping it relatively quick to type CONSTANT_VALUES (I actually still have shift keys in the usual positions but on the ergodox I have it feels like a big stretch to hit them and type so I use the auto-shift most of the time, but I do admit this is the convenience function I have the most love/hate relationship with)
5) The shift keys themselves give me open parentheses (left shift) and close parentheses (right shift) when double tapped.
The only chording I have to do these days (that isn't normal keyboard shortcuts) is I have a dedicated key to switch to a layer for FN keys when held down. And the reality is I could (and should) probably map the number keys to be FN keys when double tapped since I don't think I ever hold an FN key down.
This[1] isn't my most current layout (missing the home/end on the pageup/down buttons) but it's pretty much what I've landed on after about a year of using one of these. And realistically there are unused keys there I could remap still. The CTRL where the capslock key would be is never used in favor of the thumb cluster versions, the left and right CTRL keys on the tops of the two thumb clusters are leftovers from older layouts and unused right now. I've never used the "Meh" key or the "'" and "Capslock" keys in the lower left. The "Command-enter" and "[" and "]" keys in the lower right are another leftover from an older layout that are also unused now. So lots of room to play around still.
Not saying you should definitely switch, there are still some things that I'm not 100% happy with (those inner symbol keys are a stretch sometimes and depending on what code I'm writing feel like I could move them around) and getting used to the ortholinear layout is a whole thing on its own. But if it's something that interests you, maybe that layout can help you find a good starting point.
So a) that seems like a nightmare to me no matter what keyboard I'm on, but b) if you have frequently-used shortcuts that are a pita to get to, you can put them on a layer where you just use them.
Like, I legitimately don't know anymore how you take a screenshot on MacOS, but I know that I hit the modifier key and then this one other key, and that takes a screenshot. Also don't know what you press to move from virtual screen to virtual screen, but mod-m and mod-comma go left and right for me. And in a browser, mod-s and mod-f do ctrl-shift-tab and ctrl-tab.
It's a terrible idea to do this for rarely-used shortcuts, as you'll never remember them; but for ones you use frequently, it's better-than-native, because you can put them on convenient keys that are easy to hit, rather than whatever contortions you'd need to do to hit Ctrl-Shift-F12.
These kinds of keyboards are programmable, function keys can be added to a custom layer, just as any other keys. The entire point is to make it so you don't constantly have to be reaching for keys, to bring them closer to your fingers (which can stay relatively still).
More than just one function layer at that. When customized sufficiently you can do far more, with less movement of the hands. Different actions on hold, tap dance as well as macros all really help minimize strain.
With QMK you can essentially program your keyboard to behave exactly how you want it to. This can be as simple as creating layers or getting into combos and tap dances and more advanced features. It is actually pretty fun when you get the hang of it.
It makes perfect sense to customize the primary interface to computers.
Some of us don't program that much anymore but because we're older, the ergonomic aspects of something like Moonlander are important. Ortholinear and split keyboard for me. But I still want to be able to hop into a terminal or IDE once in a while, without having to spend a bunch of time customizing keyboard shortcuts/layouts. So it's painful to be missing all those keys.
I used to customise my car, my keyboard, even my fountain pens. Now, I just want to use them. I bought a car that's quick enough to pass lumbering trucks on tight roads (Tesla Model 3), I bought a pen that fits my hand and writes comfortably (Jinhao A10 EF), and I'd love a keyboard like the Matias Ergo Pro that I don't need to replace every year.
Not sure where you're getting the idea that you need to replace the keyboard every year. And you only really have to customize the keyboard for a short while until it covers your personal needs.
It took me maybe 1 week total after getting used to the keyboard to set it up in a way that worked for me personally, and the keyboard has already lasted a year and still works like new, and looks like new, and many people have had the same ergo-keyboard for years on end.
I like you did not like the idea of having to finnick with it all the time, but in reality those are just the enthusiasts. I set it up in a couple weeks and ever since then I've probably only messed with it a few times more just to try something out of curiosity.
> Not sure where you're getting the idea that you need to replace the keyboard every year.
Because the Matias Ergo Pro really is the perfect keyboard, but for myself and many other users they break after a year. At $250 that becomes expensive real quick.
The Matias Ergo Pro is almost perfect, but I had two of them and they both failed within one year. I had one of each switch type (low force and regular) - both were missing some button presses and repeating other button presses.