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> Everyone has been getting sold that these tariffs are on "China"

Everyone? No, only the willfully ignorant.

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well it's a cult, after all.

Right. They're on goods from China. The intent is to make that stuff more expensive so we can compete.

> The intent is to make that stuff more expensive so we can compete.

This would seem to be an admission that the domestic product is inferior, otherwise why would it be necessary to burden the import with tariffs?

In any case, if that's the intent, it's not working out for fairly predictable reasons. Lots of imported goods have no domestic equivalent. The factories required to make them require years of investment, which is not forthcoming, because the longevity of these tariffs is highly dubious and the government is doing nothing to encourage business development. And even if there were new factories, they would have to import machines and raw materials, which are of course tariffed, driving up the cost of domestic goods, and defeating the alleged purpose of the tariffs.

There's no just explanation that can make the tariffs look useful to anyone. Like everything from this administration, it's about the appearance of action.


There’s plenty of action. Actions have amply demonstrated that the purpose of the tariffs is to extort other concessions from countries, or simply to punish them for perceived insults against our leader. This is pretty obvious based on how they are set at arbitrary levels, deadlines are set and deferred, amounts are set and changed unrelated to any economic explanation (“I didn’t like the way she talked to us”), etc.

They’re just an easy cudgel to use against an entire country at whim, at least until the rest of the government delegitimizes the “emergency” excuse being used to impose them.

Essentially the President regards everything as either a zero-sum no-holds-barred negotiation with him as the primary beneficiary, or as some kind of real-estate deal (see his Davos speech about how we’re “leasing” Greenland). Tariffs are just a great general-purpose stick he found a way to wield.


If one country has labor protection and pollution regulations, and another country has near-slave labor and dumps chemicals into rivers, would you consider the former inferior? Unable to compete?

It’s fairly funny to a european that it isn’t immediately clear which half of the comparison is intended to apply to the US, and which half is supposed to apply to China.

If you think that labor in the USA and China are treated similarly, you really need to pull your head out of the sand.

It's funny as an American that Europeans are either this ignorant or think this kind of comment is clever.

Most consumers don't care about the conditions under which a product is made. Whining about labor practices is just an excuse for making an inferior product.

Pollution regulations?

Their argument is so fundamentlaly false though. If the idea is to make American businesses more competitive, why tariff raw materials? That raises the cost of American goods. It makes us less competitive. They are either very bad at this, or the purpose of the tax is different than advertised.

> This would seem to be an admission that the domestic product is inferior, otherwise why would it be necessary to burden the import with tariffs?

There are valid reason and particular instances for when tariffs are good/useful:

* https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/when-are-tariffs-good

It's just that the those instances are not applicable for what Trump is currently doing.


>"Like everything from this administration, it's about the appearance of action."

Actually people are being murdered for real, lots of other real stuff as well


> Actually people are being murdered for real, lots of other real stuff as well

They are. My point is not that the administration isn't having a real impact, but rather that they the administration doesn't care about the real impact, positive or negative. They care only that they get the headline.


"They're on goods from China".

And at least 60 other countries

"The intent is to make that stuff more expensive so we can compete."

Who is the 'we' in that sentence? If it's US citizens, then how is making US citizens pay more money helping US citizens compete?


Why tariff former European allies then? Why tariff Canada?

> Right. They're on goods from China.

And Afghanistan, Botswana, Cameroon, Fiji, Indonesia, Malaysia, Nauru, Serbia, …

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariffs_in_the_second_Trump_ad...

Also, let's not forget about 'penguin island':

* https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly8xlj0485o


That’s not the intent. It could be a more defensible intent if it was paired with a Biden-style program to develop domestic manufacturing capabilities, but that never happened and if it did it would be targeted. Raising taxes on chocolate, vanilla, and coffee, for example, doesn’t affect China and doesn’t change the fact that those don’t grow well in the continental United States (and Hawaii / Puerto Rico don’t have the capacity).

What’s worse, this often raises domestic prices: unless we have robust competition, taxing imports just raises the ceiling for what an existing manufacturer can charge while the uncertainty discourages investment in new capacity: moving entire supply chains takes years and the tariffs changing frequently means that anyone financing it has to price in their competitive edge disappearing if the right cryptocurrency purchase gets the tariff rescinded.




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