Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

I agree with this list (though yes, it is much like the Joel test). However, I make a big distinction between organizational and technical deficiencies.

A lack of source control, build tools, unit testing, and so forth is much more forgivable to me than bad working conditions for developers, provided that the organization is committed to change.

Suppose a hiring manager said to you: "we want to be a great place for developers to work. We'll give dev's autonomy, latitude, a quiet work environment with offices. Unfortunately, our tech abilities are pretty poor right now. Most of our coding has been done badly up to know, and we know it. We're trying to hire the sort of people who can get this done right. Unit testing, source control, automated builds, we know we're screwed without them... you're a good developer and we know you make make this happen for us. It's your show if you want to join on."

Well, there are still reasons to avoid a place like that, and it may be a challenge, but I wouldn't necessarily run.

Whereas if they said "here's your cubicle, we expect you to be here from 9 to 5, managers will be watching you from their corner offices..." well then, of course, the finger goes up.



"However, I make a big distinction between organizational and technical deficiencies."

I make that distinction too. One of my previous employers scored a 4 or 5 on the Joel test, but the work was extremely interesting, the technical staff was top notch and we actually had power to change things. My last employer in contrast probably scores more like a 9 or 10. The management was just mind bogglingly incompetent.


>Well, there are still reasons to avoid a place like that, and it may be a challenge, but I wouldn't necessarily run.

It may not be a reason to avoid any place like that, but any startup like that I would flee from.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: